Only the firing pin is metal and yet it survived its first shot on a firing range without exploding in the hand of owner and activist Cody Wilson.
To comply with US weapon laws a piece of metal is inserted in the grip as without it it would not be visible on older style gun detectors. As Cody and his activist group ´Defense Distributed´ want to make the CAD files available online, other makers will skip this obligatory step.
The printer used, a Dimension SST, can be obtained for $8000 and could produce a batch of these (for now) single-shot weapons. However it will be cheaper to make one yourself from hardware store supplies.
The real danger is not in the availability; manuals for producing home made guns have been in circulation for tens of years and buying one is not that difficult even in countries where it´s illegal.
The difference is that the all-plastic 3D printed gun can be made by a completely new demographic. People who don´t have contacts in illegal weapon trade nor experience in the old ´Zip-style´ DIY world.
Especially in states and countries where gun possession is illegal and rare the availability of a downloadable 3D gun will bring in a new class of weapon owners. Students in large cities are a good example; they don´t have a tool shed nor criminal friends, but they have easy access to a 3D printer and the know-how to use the online CAD-files.
The other problem is one of tracking. A gun which is sold can be traced, even an illegal gun can often be traced back. Someone sold it so you are never the only one who know you have a weapon. With a 3D printed one you would leave no trace at all and it´s easy to get rid of it after the kill by melting the plastic.
The only way to prevent a spread of guns in hitherto unarmed circles is to control the ammunition, but with Walmarts selling them without any registration this will be very hard. Maybe it´s time to start controlling the ammunition circuit. Getting a gun just became easier for a new demographic. #Tech
Powerful sense of looking into the/a future when I see that picture… (an unevenly distributed one.)
You can easily make your own ammunition as well. Gray Matter: Easy DIY Gunpowder
Legislating morality is a deep rabbit hole. Regulate firearms, then ammo, then saltpeter, then what?
gunpowder isn't the most difficult thing of ammo. The most difficult is making a bullet with firing mechanism.
Well thank god we don't all have to live in Europe. How's that Sharia Law thing going for you?
😀 you think Europe is under sharia law?
Heard that on Fox, haven't you…
+Roelf Renkema the numbers on violent crime in Europe would beg to differ. England is a much more violent country, statistically speaking, than the US.
But you answered a question I didn't ask. Where do the bans end?
So, you're just not going to answer then?
+Sander Deryckere That bit isn't all that difficult either. You just need a small lathe and a bit that suits the caliber.
+Roelf Renkema You are free in Europe because of Americans. Don't ever forget that.
Violent Nation Ep 1 – Violent Streets
Ah, fallacy. Why am I not surprised?
So, what should be related then? Hammers? Three times as may people in the US are bludgeoned to death than killed with a firearm.
By your logic (what shouldn't be banned) è should all be logic in steel rooms with no door.
I asked a logical question, one that people who believe morality can be legislated never answer. You went the extra step of getting to change the question a few times, but I expect you won't answer abs I attribute that to cognitive dissonance.
Everyone is violent. No one wants to admit it.
+Roelf Renkema
I actually first heard about the implementation of Sharia Law from Michael Savage, not FOX news, and it has spread from England to Paris, so it is virulent.
+Dirk Talamasca, still more difficult than gunpowder. But since you can adapt the cad files, it should be possible to print the gun for use with a calibre that's easy to get.
Huh?
By the way, printers are global +Roelf Renkema why are you focusing on the US?
I just need to say LOL , seriously, get to see the rest of the world before talking about sharia laws in europe….
Right. Then I asked where the logical end to bans is, and got went on a Europe (which apparently doesn't England) vs. America train of thought.
My question was a serious one. What do you Babb next when you find that regulating bullets, then gunpowder, then saltpeter doesn't end violence and murder?
You can't say it just ends at reducing the numbers. Those numbers have been reduced quite a bit over the last several decades and there's no consensus on an acceptable baseline.
So, what after saltpeter?
It didn't become easier. This its already fully regulated.
Anyone else want to trace a stab at it?
Like our anti-rights friends love to do. Statistics can be made to work any way you would like them to work. We don't want registration and licensing on our guns here simply because we don't want the next step which is confiscation, which is happening already. Giving an inch on gun rights is an inch in the wrong direction. We compromised once with the Gun Control Act of 1968, and we've been fighting back ever since.
+Sander Deryckere No its not. Making guns is trivial and does not require advanced tools in any way. Comparable weapons, with far more firepower, can be made for less than twenty dollars using a simple saw. Making ammunition is easy. The chemistry is well know and widely available. Look at history, which confirms everything I stated.
New threat level introduced here? Zero. Only tyrants should fear such weapons. Go read why the weapon is aptly named, "Liberator."
More fallacy. Can't say I'm surprised.
+Dwayne Mattson The down hill ride started in 1914, in response to higher crime rates directly attributed to prohibition. Then again in 1916. Since 1914, you can watch crime increase proportionately with gun control. History is very clear here. If you love crime, you ban guns.
Parts of prohibition were repealed. But people don't understand the other illegal and unconstitutional prohibition laws were not. We still have prohibition laws on the books today and they've continuously made society sicker. Just as prohibition of alcohol did. And as the war on drugs does today.
+Noze P.
I've been to Europe, I was there when the Berlin Wall came down. I love where I live, I love being able to go out and shoot whenever I can find ammo, which lately has become a problem thanks to DHS buying up most of the .22 Long Rifle ammo. I was trained to shoot at my local rifle club. I was safety trained there, and later became a Junior Instructor at the age of 17.
+Roelf Renkema
Nice poster but are the stats credible?
+Roelf Renkema I'm sure you're a smart guy, but your fallacies are listed on that poster. You started with red herring and when I pointed out fallacy it was because of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
That poster direct list murder rates, just handgun murder rates. That's cute.
Funny, you don't like people who get around subjects but
1) you answered my question with a different topic
And
2) you pointed out that England doesn't represent Europe then linked a picture that cherry picks murder rates.
+Roelf Renkema Irrational response. Per capita is what matters. The countries with the worst gun control tend to have the highest crime rates. The US is number one in gun ownership and isn't even in the top 20. Furthermore, the stats are very clear, even backed by FBI reports. Most gun crime in the US stems from illegal drugs and gangs. In large cities, 40%-90+% of gun crime is caused by gangs. Gangs are supported by drug prohibition. If you love crime, you ban guns and drugs. The stats are very clear.
Seriously, if your debating this, either you are ignorant of the stats and shouldn't be commenting, or you are aware of the stats and choose to ignore reality because it completely undermines your position. Either way, ignorant or delusional, your contribution will be trolling.
The bottom line is, the US could dramatically reduce crime. We know the solution. The solution involves striking down the hundreds of illegal, unconstitutional laws, legalizing drugs, and initiating a "war on gangs." Which would include education. This would also stop up to 80% of crime in the United States.
That was 20+ years ago +Dwayne Mattson and even those days there were no sharia laws in europe.
Tho, i dont think guns are the real problem in the US, other countries also have guns, just not the urge of killing eachither with it.
And then threatened me. But Americans are violent.
+Jeffrey Hamby
Uh oh, you've been educated in English forensic use of language. I love that stuff, semantics are so useful in arguments, as long as it is a reasoned argument, leaving out all the emotional clap trap.
I've had guns my whole life, never killed anything I wasn't going to eat, and have yet to take up cannibalism, so I think the human race is safe from this shooter at least.
Emotion had no place in debate. Logic and reason or go away 😉
+Roelf Renkema not true, and you even pointed out you couldn't answer it because it was a "silly question." When did that change?
He's losing his cool, I think. Picking cherries?
+Noze P. That "urge" stems from substance prohibition policies. Which are themselves, some of the last racist laws on the books today.
+Roelf Renkema your lack of grammar and spelling in many of your comments so far, have made all of your poorly argued points loose all merit. I take it as a sign of your education and wisdom… So be more careful
+Noze P.
Yes I'm pretty sure there was no Sharia Law in Europe when I was there, but the seeds for that were sewn with our involvement in Desert Storm. It was after that that the Arab World really started to radicalize, due in no small part to the U.S. having "infidel" troops in Saudi Arabia.
Yeah, I wouldn't pick on spelling and grammar. English is apparently not his first language, and his comments are understandable.
His argument though…
+Roelf Renkema England's government was forced to admit their statistics are wildly misleading. They have dramatically higher violent crime rates and a moderately higher gun crime rate. The difference is in how they record their statistics.
For example, one man shoots two people. In the US, that's two violent crimes. In England, that's one, because one person did it as commission of a single crime. Meaning, for the exact same crime, England magically has half the crime rate.
Interesting note about England. They had their worst mass shooting AFTER their ban on guns.
Contrary to popular myth, England is less safe than the US because of their ban on guns.
You have laws allowing for people to not be able to see their own family when no actual law has been broken?
I can hardly wait until all sorts of paranoid nutjobs run around with a gun 'round here. I've never encountered a gun in my entire life, I'm so pleased that this will change soon.
+Roelf Renkema Data on what, specifically? If this is news to you, why do you believe you have an educated position?
+Roelf Renkema In the US we have a Constitution preventing such behavior. It may happen, but it's illegal and solveable in the courts.
It was an honest question though, yet you respond with venom once again. You said Jehovas can deny access to families, and I asked how that's legal.
Calm down.
+Joey C your life would be what we call a ´civilized one´. Out there in the third world guns are in abundance but it´s a sign of civilization that governments get the monopoly on violence.
+Jeffrey Hamby no its not legal. Scientology here is considered as a sect and banned. But this is a totally different debate 🙂
+Jeffrey Hamby http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141672992/native-foster-care-lost-children-shattered-families
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/opinion/article_1c144792-b36d-11e2-8ac6-001a4bcf887a.html
+Max Huijgen "civilized" is subjective. So "we" in that statement should be "I".
I submit lacking the ability to defend my own home uncivilized.
There seems to be absolutely no European country with more homocides by firearm than the US.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
Sure, there is more that influences crime stats than gun control, but gun control is part of the needed politics.
+Greg Copeland those laws exist because native American lands are treated as their own sovereign state.
will probably eventually make the firing pin out of some tough non metal substance soon..
say hello to mandatory TSA pat downs.
+Sander Deryckere that's pretty irrelevant. The idea behind gun regulation is to reduce murders, but it tends not to do that. If a law advising person snaps they just find a distention weapon. If a criminal wants to commit violent crime, they're already ignoring laws such as gun regulation anyway.
US still has a higher total homicide rate than most European countries.
http://chartsbin.com/view/1454
Only some east European countries are a bit behind.
+Jeffrey Hamby Right. But the law is being violated all over the US. Children are simply kidnapped by the state.
Btw, to be clear, I don't say you limit violence when you limit guns. The source of violence is most of the time not gun related.
But easy access to guns makes it easier to kill.
+Sander Deryckere Don't forget to look at the European countries with the most liberal gun laws which also have the lowest crime rates.
Also, don't forget to check into how the statistics are recorded. As an example, the way England records their crime stats makes them dramatically lower than they are in reality.
+Greg Copeland a law existing doesn't prevent crime. It simply allows for recourse if the crime is committed.
+Jeffrey Hamby While legislating morality is a deep rabbit hole. Firearms, ammo, tobacco, alcohol, cars and other objects that affect public health and safety is not legislating morality. Outlawing gay marriage is.
I find it ironic that you also slip in slippery slope to your comment yet slam everyone else for their logic.
+Jeffrey Hamby Agreed. I simply offered as a counter that you can not trust US courts to ensure liberty or safety. The courts exist for when everything else has failed. Our courts are in a pretty sorry state these days.
As an example, a judge was just convicted of selling kids to private prisons.
Controlling the ammo supply won't actually fix anything since you can print a plastic billet and a shell casing much easier then a gun. The only ingredient that they would have to get is black powder and they could make bullets in any caliber this has given a whole new set of liberties and individual rights world wide.
Swiss people are weird. Period. (and not part of the EU)
The most liberal gun law in the EU is found in Finland (where it's actually needed against polar bears etc), and it seems to be the country with the biggest homicide rate in the EU. Although Finns are generally known to be a loving people (the best education system in the world).
I know Belgium is also quite high. But there's a reason for that. We've had a quite liberal gun law for ages, they only tried to limit it some years ago. But the administration got stuck, and thousands of people still own non-declared guns.
+Darin Simmons Roughly 80% of crime in the US is directly or indirectly related to the war on drugs. The war on drugs absolutely is prohibition and an effort to legislate morality. The problem is, people blame guns, which are not the problem. People blame guns because of their effort to legislate morality.
+Darin Simmons are you suggesting violence is not immoral?
+Greg Copeland agreed.
Cherry picking. I encourage you to further explore the data behind the stats. Its almost a universal truth. As you restrict gun rights, crime increases. England in the poster-child. Restriction of gun rights always proceed genocides. That's not to say its a mandatory precursor.
The bottom line is, you can't legislate morality. If people want to kill others, they will find a way to do so. Which is why police in England wear stab vests rather than bullet proof vests. Which is why murders by bludgeoning is common throughout the world.
Best country regarding homicides in the EU seems to be Sweden, where cannabis is … illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country
Best European country seems to be Norway, where it's illegal too.
Most European countries tolerate certain amounts, but apparently, not the ones with the least homicides.
+Greg Copeland I am not arguing with you… but I can tell you that many other countries that have "wars on drugs" don't have the same gun violence… Once again, I am not trying to say that fault simply lays in the hands of "guns", but there is definitely something different about the gun activity in the states than in other places, unfortunately.
Only in extremist nations like the US…
+Roelf Renkema you are wasting your time with these people, they don't even believe in the idea of evolution, guns and the 2nd amendment is some kind of religion for them, the majority of them are a bunch scare white people who live in fear of "the government, minorities, foreign countries invading, their own shadow" and having guns make them feel "safe"
+Marco Meijer we've already solved that as a topic. 3d printers are not found only in the US.
And +Ubaldo Romero
they don't even believe in the idea of evolution
Really? That's your argument? I believe in evolution, now what?
Maybe you could avoid generalizations and join the conversation with actual logic and reason.
+Jeffrey Hamby But it was an American who thought it was a good idea to make these models. It wasn't an Asian, or a European, it was a citizen of the USA.
+Jeffrey Hamby Well in Texas they have to chage the biology textbooks to teach and explain creationism, and the part of evolution was just mention and reduce to a half page
+Braeden Laverty I agree with you to an extent. A lot of it has to do with local politics. In many places, for example, drugs are illegal, but the communities are who make the drugs. Its their income. So while the state may have a war on drugs, it may not be prosecuted in the same way.
Your comments wonderfully highlight the complexities of the issue, which many simply wish to ignore. Which is why above, I was encouraging others to look what's behind the statistics.
Look at Afghanistanas an example. Officially the state has a war on drugs. The opiate kingpin of Afghanistan is the President's brother. Opium is the major export. Easy to see why not all war on drugs are equal.
+Jeffrey Hamby you are the one making the assertion. I could explain the difference between violence in people and inanimate objects but then I would be taking up a position for you to debate. You do the work if you think you have a point to make.
+Ubaldo Romero again, what does that have to do with valid argument? I'm in Texas, and don't agree with the suggested (never actually happened) textbook changes.
+Darin Simmons I've made several, and pointed out the lack of validity in claiming quite a few things in this thread. Tell me, how is it that legislating drug use is legislating morality, but legislating violence is not?
My question was a clear and simple one. If you don't believe legislating violence is legislating morality, you're suggesting violence is not immoral.
Please respond to the actual question rather than dancing around it.
I really hate to be the one to point this out, but the primary use case I can think of for a printed one-use gun is taking one's own life – an act which constitutes the majority of "handgun deaths" in the USA. :/
+Max Huijgen It is true that you can go to a hardware store and make a zip gun for less than $15.00 If you use a rubber band less than that
will not post the things needed in public but it can be done quickly and effectively
I think part of the issue between +Jeffrey Hamby and +Darin Simmons is Darin's presumption that morality is a constant. There is a difference between popular prohibition (drugs, alcohol), where morality is flexible, is in the eye of the beholder, and morality which is universally condemned.
Society says murder is wrong and harmful to society. So with the weight of society its held high. On the other hand, a large percentage of humanity does not believe drugs are immoral. Here, popular prohibition only serves to create moral criminals of a sizable percentage of the population. Which interestingly enough, is exactly what we see in the US. Prisons is the fastest growing government service…privatized. The war on drugs also provides an excuse to federalize and militarize local police – who are beholden to the feds for dollars.
Good point +Greg Copeland
Certainly +William Johnston price and availability are lower for traditional guns, but if you´re a teenager in a big East coast city it will be easier to print one. At least that´s my concern; that it opens up gun control for demographics which were so far excluded from it.
Not being exposed to them in your youth also means it´s more likely they are seen as ´toys´ and firing them will be easier.
+Max Huijgen I think you underestimate availability from the black market.
Most guns used in crime are illegal purchases. Because most are stolen or straw purchases, there is a price point for everyone.
When you also consider you can purchase a brand new 9mm, semi-auto pistol, legally, for $150, with a lifetime of the weapon warranty, the appeal of something like this becomes pretty limited.
+Greg Copeland people do not believe how easy it is to purchase a gun on the street and I mean any type of firearm you want There are three places that I know of within a five mile radius of here and have references to the same number within 10 miles
+William Johnston that's not just in the US either. Mexico has some awfully stringent gun control laws, yet has a much higher per capita gun violence rate, and actually surpassed the US in total gun violence incidents recently.
Of course, it doesn't help that this administration helped supply a large number of weapons down south, which made the President's recent comments on his trip to Mexico very interesting.
How accurate is that thing? Any idiot and set off a bullet, but can it hit a target at even 5 feet?
+Jeffrey Hamby I thought I pointed out a simple fact. There is a distinct difference between the gun and the violence. You don't have to believe me, look at the law. There are laws for ownership of guns and there are laws regarding violence.
Violence and morality are abstractions like terror and marriage. That seems so simple to me. It doesn't matter if violence is immoral or not. Violence affects public health and safety so we legislate it. Just like drugs have nothing to do with this conversation, morality and the legislation of it, have nothing to do with this conversation.
So, I'm not going to debate it anymore with you.
If you feel this makes your position right, then you're the man! If you feel that you have checkmated me, congratulations! If you feel since I won't fight you on the internet about morality, you have no contenders and king of the hill, you rock!
How about leaving our guns alone and we wouldn't resort to this kind of tactic.
+Darin Simmons that's not the point though. The only reason to regulate guns is their use in violence. If they're sitting in a safe, or being used to hunt, there's zero reason to regulate them. So it is about guns and their ties to violence.
And feel free to continue to be snarky if that helps you make arguments. I'm game.
+Jonathan Magana
+Jeffrey Hamby Exactly.
For those who don't know, Obama can be linked to a confirmed murder of 300+ US and Mexican citizens. Some estimates place as many as 3000+ murders on Obama. Look up the "fast and furious" and "gun walker" programs. Obama then used murders, for which he is responsible, to pass anti-gun legislation (gun registration) in all the border states with Mexico. Classic tail-wag-the-dog politics. Interestingly enough, the most recent anti-gun push was actually about gun registration – not background checks.
According to the leak which blew the lid off this program, its been going on for at least three presidencies. I personally believe it was kicked off by Reagan as this is a perfect match for his M.O., who also kicked off the war on drugs immediately before states were to start legalizing pot.
The project has historically been bipartisan. Congress shut down two efforts to investigate. Obama signed executive orders shutting down the third investigation effort. That's right, Obama signed orders shutting down the investigation into himself for drug, gun, and murder chargers. The two ATF agents in charge of illegal guns for cash and cocaine with the Mexican cartels have been promoted. The agent who blew the whistle has had his career destroyed.
Almost no mainstream media covered this. CBS was one of the few exceptions.
How long would it be usable? I do mean, I can fire with it..
lol, yeah, control ammo, because there's NO way people can make that themselves…. oh wait…
Oh ya. Historical context for the gun's name, "Liberator."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberator_pistol
Finally, a free market choice for the terrorist and crazed lunatic who has no criminal contacts! No more worries about being caught on street cams!
I've always thought it was unfair for people who spend all day at home trolling conspiratorial message boards to not have a good gun connection.
Sharia Law is make believe. The only laws that matter are the ones a country makes.
There goes ballistics forensics for a toss. Criminals can now just print their own gun, use it for murder and get rid of the weapon simply by melting it. Melting point should be low considering it's plastic.
No good can come from this. Unless we pick a fight with Magneto.
There goes the arms market…
Very cool
+Adam Cornell Well,,, I'm pretty certain "they" (whoever these Lesters are), are going to ban this (everywhere in the world), but, yes, perhaps it'll make a significant enough dent in the market (some day), and hopefully dent the strength of the silly gun-lobbists. (disclosure: at the moment, i'm actually pro-"tighter gun controls", but not pro disarmament entirely).
Yay for the FREEDOM to defend ourselves!!!
+Greg Copeland I addressed the low cost DIY weapons in response to +William Johnston However I´m very aware that the black market offers an alternative for the $15 guns.
Again, like I state in my post, this is a limited option. Lots of people don´t have the contacts. The printable gun will serve a new audience.
+Max Huijgen as long as they have the contacts for the printer, which I think was part of +Greg Copeland 's point.
For instance, I don't know anyone with a 3d printer, and the cost is prohibitive for me. Buying a firearm is a much easier task.
Sure +Jeffrey Hamby and there is a demographic for which the reverse is true. 3D printer around the corner or free at the uni and no idea how to buy one.
Nothing is free 😉
university is pretty much free. €300 subscription money per year, and access to lots of technological stuff (s.a. 3D printers) 24/7.
Sure, you can't use all their material, but I don't think they'll notice something like that missing.
Gotta get me one one of these asap.
+Sander Deryckere that doesn't include the tax revenue taken to subsidize that fee.
no, it doesn't, but that's not a lot. And if you don't work, they don't take taxes either.
hmm, i find this particular debate quite amusing, as this kid did this simply to prove he could and to stir up the government. the simple fact is most folks can't afford the eight thousand bucks that this printer costs. and i think i only saw one post that mentioned one can buy a perfectly funtioning firearm for one hundred and fifty dollars.
there are way better altenitives to this kids plastic piece of crap, there are folks making .50 calibre air powered rifles that will take your head off. i have an old .22 calibre air pistol thats as deadly as a powder fired gun.
so regulating or outlawing this plastic crap will solve nothing but folks trying to get on planes with them. hell for that matter i can build a sling shot that can crush your skull with a 20mm ball at range.
look up the young guys videos about his atempts to make AR-15 parts, he even states in one video his intentions for doing so.
and you guys are jumping into the fray he wishes to cause, either side it doesn't matter. what does matter is that he has now gotten the attention he was wanting, albeit not from whom he was hoping, as i'm sure he will find out soon.
good day gentlemen.
+Max Huijgen this was a good one thanks.
+Sander Deryckere seems if it's not a lot, then your professors are working for very little money. Running a university is very expensive.
Why do you want to control the ammunition circuit. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand. Infringement is Infringement no matter what form of it you offer. My guns have never shot anyone nor have they ever done anything illegal. I take great pleasure in target shooting and find your statement highly offensive.
+Grover Duffield You obviously are from the US as otherwise you would have realized there is no universal "shall not be infringed". In fact it´s a very rare provision, absent from almost all constitutions.
The other thing is that registration is no infringement according to your very particular constitution. Nothing wrong with registration and tracking.
How about taking the designs, the prototype(s) and burning them or tossing them into the garbage or recycling and then hypnotizing those with the knowledge of this plastic gun and helping them to cleanse their memory of the details?
+Max Huijgen that's actually not how the Constitution works. Any law can be passed by Congress, and can live in perpetuity. It's only if that law is challenged all the way to the Supreme Court that the determination is made as to whether or not it's constitutional.
Several gun laws have been struck down that way. And as registration has not become a thing here, it hasn't had to be challenged.
Now that sounds like the logical thing to do but I don't think that will
happen.
of course +Jeffrey Hamby that´s the normal way. Most constitutions work that way, but that doesn´t change my reading of the second amendment.
I can´t see a registration taboo there.
Nonsense people need order and control. When people are let loose to do what they want they're animals. People being free of any control only works in fairy tales. Humans would think 2 minutes into the futer if they were given that much freedom. If you live by those rules you don't even notice they are there.
+Michael Rios was that sarcasm?
Its better to be free in a controlled world than controlled in a free world.
You for that right but whose really in control..
As always… We, the people…
and yet it is +Majik Fox
Great for terrorist to take on to planes.
Anarchist cook book page 26
Democide – When governments kill their own citizens. Responsible for over 300 million deaths in the 20th century.
I need that
at least there's that law where you must have metal in the gun so it can be detected.
+Albert Nahnimmus a law I'm sure criminals will obey 😉
Great, another pro gun ad… what the hell is wrong with this country?
Wow, what a passionate group of people on here! Oh yeah, we're talking guns and religion, Americas great wooden plank in our own eye! Yeeeeah! Okay, I've gotta have my turn, cause i'm'n uhmurican 2! You are all wrong btw… banning guns is stupid, easing possession is stupid too. The answer is to allow gun ownership, but to make it a royal pain in the ass to enjoy owning a gun! Ban cigarettes, and drugs, dumb idea, but taxing the hell out of them, banning smoking in public places, and showing cancer and dead babies on cigarette packs… fucking brilliant! Cigarette use has dropped in every state that has banned public smoking, and now normal unnaddicted people go to bars for fun now. Same should be done with guns, tax the royal shit out of them, and their ammo, and every god forsaken form of ammo supplies, ban their use and display in all public spaces, and show dead school children and shot off faces on every bullet pack, fucking brilliant! Now schools will start to feel safe again and everyone will be happy! Well except for the smokers/gun owners. Sad group of death addicted people! Want weapons so you can eat your game, be a sport and invest in non-lethal weapons (stun, taze, tranq, or other emerging technologies), and cut the life out of your deer with your bear fucking hands you animal! Yeah, i can smell the adrenalin high already, along with the deer piss!!! Worried about a govt takeover, you are no match! US spends more on its military than any other developed nation, seriously, are you that fucking dumb? Invest in weapons of mass paralysis, and soon you might be able to take down an army with that phaser set to stun. Killing is just plain wrong, supporting it it plain stupid, and it's a sin for you religious zealots!
Wall of text, stopped reading after religion was accused even though it wasn't brought up.
Added to the short sighted list…
Just a fan of punctuation and paragraphs making his way through life.
+Jason Ferris
read your statement through … at first thought you were pro-gun … found your actual stance … think your idea is brilliant.
Summary of +Jason Ferris comment: tax weapons to death.
Right after the blind accusation about the religious comments I never saw 😉
+Jeffrey Hamby why are you so hung up on the religion thing… "violence is immoral," "good and evil,""2nd amendment is some kind of religion to them," "legislating morality," "quackers, jehovas, fred phelps," "sharia law…" shall i continue? No one need say Christian/god/christ to imply religion. And who said i was replying to you specifically? I read some posts and said my spiel. Besides "guns and religion" is a quote, and a red flag for the the pro-gun, anti-obama folk that exist even here. Anyway, +Albert Nahnimmus , no i'm actually not against guns or smoking. Both can justifiably be used for forms of pleasure, as well as drugs, riding horses, etc, all have their place, purpose, and people have a right to them. But when i'm out with my daughter and people feel they have a right to bring guns into public that may be used (period), or feel they can billow out smoke increasing her risk of getting lung cancer, being bombarded by broke addicts that may slip her some meth, or being trampled over by a gang of drug using, gun shooting, renegade cowboys, then yes, public is not the place for that! Ideally if you like something, you should encourage newer, safer forms of it. But when people demand something that can be used for more carnage, and rules aren't obeyed or in place to set limits, then yes, i am against it! I got chewed out for long paragraphs before, so i guess this is "not the place for a discussion." +Max Huijgen sure their are many things better than taxation, but talk to smokers, high prices often help kick the addiction… do you have a better solution?
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+Jason Ferris I point it out because there's an obvious bias in your post, and I can't imagine where it came from with regard to this conversation.
It's not me that's hung up on religion… I'm just pointed out that you appear to be.
Likewise! What freakin "with regards to this conversation" BS are you referring to, your post/s? If i was referring to you, your name +Jeffrey Hamby would have been all over it! Obviously i already pointed out conversations that had justified my brief sentence, i listed them in "" just to make you happy. Dude, let off on the pointless semantics. You were doing so good until you got all caught up in the religion quote/tag/entrance. I have no quarrel with you. If you still dont get it, next time you're talking politics about Clinton, and i come in and say, "great, everyone's talking sex and politics, Americas great hardon for lust", feel free to jump all over that and say "stopped reading after blind biased sex psychology accusations and walls of punctuated paragraphs" about my relevant post. Oh and make sure you also disregard the actual argument that had very little to do with the entrance line/quote. Deal? Well, now that this is over, anyone care to come back to the discussion? Sheeeew!
+Jason Ferris yes, let's reboot. don't you think it's a dumb idea to let people print their own guns/get guns off the internet? to use topics totally unrelated except by the relation i'm about to point out, +Jeffrey Hamby, wouldn't you not want people to print their own money/get drugs off the internet? with this 3d gun printing scheme, somebody could easily create a stockpile of guns in their basement. just wait till they code-up an AK47 for printing use.
+Jason Ferris you proclaimed it. I merely pointed it out because it's part of the famous "guns and religion" chant, though it wasn't brought up until you came in and made it "a thing."
+Albert Nahnimmus a gun is a tool, currency is part of an economic system. Our economy doesn't count on the validity of the source of a firearm.
So they're not comparable.
+Jeffrey Hamby the blind person in here is you, if you can't see, read, and cant realize that the topic has already been thrown out there, then may God or GodParticle help you! Anyone brave enough to give a * +1 so we can move on. Unless someone actually wants to enguage this guy over his freakish obsession with this somehow new topic "I supposedly started!" I'm starting to feel like i'm cheating on my wife with this little bitch. * +1 not applied to bitch comment.
thank you +Albert Nahnimmus ! Dumb idea to support and encourage the manufacturing of printable weapons/currency, yes. But, it is a dumb idea to stifle innovation too. If someone wants to make printable guns for proof of concept, sobeit, this will lead to newer innovations elsewhere. Just like a chemist who wants to make meth for proof of concept, sobeit, his methods may lead to a discovery that could make meth less socially destructive, less chemically poisonous, and illegal manufacturing less explosive! You can't stop people from making stuff, and telling then no, freakishly makes people want to do it more. Gotta love human nature! Right now, if the NRA were guiding the tobacco industry, they would be saying the solution to meth users is to get them addicted to tobacco. So lets put cigarettes in all schools, and when a teacher sees someone smoking weed, give them a carton of cigs. Better yet, give everyone unrestricted access to tobacco! So what it kills thousands everyday, at least you wont have meth addicts next door. How messed up is that? Yes, the technology now exist to stockpile illegal printable guns in a basement, this fact still forever remains an issue with everything illegal. But, what concerns me the most is the amount of support americans are giving toward this discovery, the fault for that is poor discouragement of gun use. Go to any gun ravaged community in latin america, the citizens only wish they never had to see another gun again! Go to america, well we all know that story.
+Jason Ferris um, ok. You must be right.. somehow.
Muting, this thread got batshit crazy again.
Couldnt agree more! If it matters to you, sorry i called you a bitch. If it really matters to you, i'll accept your appology for singling me out over the other comments. Peace out!
+Jason Ferris personally i'm not so interested in this topic. maybe you should invite some friends here. i won't mute, though.
+Jason Ferris also, i typed the last comment before i saw your next.