Two heads of election committees are now banned from entry into the EU. That will teach them asking people for their opinion!
Yes, I know it was badly organized, liable to fraud and was done without permission from the West, but at least some people's opinion got heard.
The current regime in Kiev doesn't have a democratic basis either, but they believe they have a mandate to shoot at people who consider another future.
Meanwhile president Putin is asked to intervene to stop these votes for independence. Oh, and to stop intervening.
And if the upcoming Kiev election by that putsch regime is disturbed by people with different opinions, Putin will suffer from sanctions as well.
Economic ones, if Europe has the guts to hurt themselves, but that has to wait until decent weather in Western Europe as we need the Russian gas.
Clueless and hypocrite politics by Europe.
Photo shows radical militants voting against freedom, Europe and song festivals #Politics
If people just having an unofficial vote to leave the government of a county takes off Russia will be really pissed. Ask Hungary what happened to them.
You refer to the 1956 revolt against the USSR? +Tim Box
Oh, yet the Gayropean Union doesn't notice the murder of 50 people in Odessa by Kiev's Nazi junta. It seems the Gay-U has no human values left in it anymore.
+Eduard Karesli More than 100, according to some unoficial sources (not RT, witnesses). I read an article in the british press stating that it was the victims' fault – they dropped mistakenly a Molotov cocktail on the roof of the building, etc., etc.
Enough hypocracy everywhere… Nobody has yet to corner the market.
As if the USA, UK, Germany, or Russia would allow armed separatists to hold elections in parts of those countries…
#shadeofgrey
F the trolls
You first count how many Chechens were killed. Don't forget.
At least Obama shut off Putin's Netflix account – surely that will make him mend his ways.
The EU are not hypocritical on this point. They are quite sincere in their opposition to democracy. The EU was founded by people who believed that democracy is bad and technocracy is good – and that philosophy continues to the present day. As far as they are concerned, if an election or referendum produces a result they don't agree with, it doesn't count, and can/should be ignored or overturned.
I'm not saying that to support the Russian position – just pointing out something about the EU.
+Max Huijgen there is hypocrisy enough to go around for all concerned.
+Max Huijgen What I'm saying is Russian never stands for country's in its boarders saying we held a vote and want to leave the union but is happy to have it the other way around.
+Eduard Karesli
You're hatefulness is evident for all to see. You must be Russian?
+Bruce Attah The truth is supporting Russian position. So – thanks.
+Shaker Cherukuri Like in North Korea and Russia. Your sentence is complete nonsense: it was not 90% but much less, it was not voting but organized falsification, it was not for freedom but slavery, and it was not an information but another propaganda.
We used to mark the edge of our territories with shit, piss and the bones of our enemies. Now we mark it with ink on paper, barbed wire and men with guns. Europe is running up against the edges of it's natural boundaries and each time the local people on the edge are both pushing towards and pushing away. Meanwhile the tribal leaders are facing off, pulling faces, shouting a lot and beating their chests.
Remember the break up of the former Yugoslavia and Albania? It will get better in the Balkans and it will resolve itself. The EU will get bigger and peace will break out so we can all go back to business. May take a while though and may take some bloodshed. Till the next one.
Is this the first time the EU boundary has been argued over land where the people's natural language is Russian?
Yes yes, nazi junta in Kiev, right? And the Maidan guys where equipped by NATO, supported by Greystone mercenaries, correct? I think someone has to read definition of "junta" and try to use their brain. And I am still waiting for a single piece of evidence of mercenaries and NATO equipment. Unless baseball bats and wooden shields count for it.
+Fainius Nedurbanavicius
People see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
Odessa: a few hundred Separatists versus a few thousand football
supportershooligans – each side armed with molotov cocktails. Any competent local authority would have realised that combination would spell trouble and sent police / security forces to ensure the two groups remained separated. If they failed at that, then bring in the fire brigade to douse them all with water – people are far less likely to remain violent when drenched. Then when the fire started, although some locals were helping a few of the Separatists out of the building, there was still a large crowd of hooligans outside ready to beat up those voluntarily leaving. Again, why was the fire brigade AWOL?Kiev: Given the Separatists in East Ukraine feel they're not safe with the current interim regime (formerly the opposition party, and according to wiki still have fewer seats than Yanukovich's party) and have long been calling on Russia to come in and protect them, what's the worst possible action Kiev could do in response if it wanted to retain the "territorial integrity" of Ukraine? How about sending military troops to the region in the guise of "anti terror" operations (allegedly assisted by US mercenaries) and invariably involving the deaths of several civilians?
Have they had a collective lobotomy or (despite the rhetoric) are they deliberately trying to push the Eastern regions into Russia? On the one hand, that would increase the likelihood of a pro-Western President being elected in a couple of weeks, but on the other hand, in doing so they'll have lost their industrial heartlands (one of the main sources of government revenue).
Yanukovich may have been corrupt, but at least he was willing to look both ways – engaging in discussions and negotiations with both Russia and the EU to solicit aid from both. In the end, Russia had more money on the table with less overt conditions and caveats. It's likely that EU money would have been released iteratively in response to major reforms and public sector redundancies (c.f. Greece).
+Ben Norwood Great point.
+Ben Norwood – you have no idea what has happened and is going on. Slightly corrupt Yanukovich? Wow.
If all they are doing in this is arranging an expression of public views, it is wrong to take action against them! I may not agree with their views, but I support their right to think those views, and to express them. The manner of expression can of course be controversial and they may go too far in that!. But the collection of opinions should surly be a fundamental democratic right?.
+Max Huijgen I'm not a gramma nazi ;^) but your "That will learn them" shouldn't it be rather a That will teach them ?
Who supports Neo-Nazi ideologies?
If you answered yes, then you agree with high ranking officials in Kiev.
Who here was shocked when Jews were told to register with the govt? I bet those in the Svoboda party were'nt.
Leftists aren't concerned when John McCain is spearheading the intervention and demanding we supply them with arms??
Or that the Director of the CIA. John Brennan is advising the newly formed gov't in Kiev?
Wake up guys!
+Gill Huston – single evidence please.
Haha, which comment do you wish to contest Fainius?
That Jews were requested to register with the government.
How about
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/ukraine.asp
+Scott Watson – exactly, these were russian armed nazis in Doneck, the ones who are now playing "peoples republic" and want to join Russia (members of neonazi organisation "Russkije jedinstvo") not the legitimate government in Kiev. By the way they have kidnapped Svoboda member and his mother in Slaviansk, demanding ransome. Freedom fighters, my ass.
You draw quite the crowd +Max Huijgen.
Diverse as it should be +Emiel Rienstra
In a recent post I critized social media pundits for often being superficial and focussing on the little issues while ignoring civil wars and other stuff so I was obliged to make a post like this one.
See (https://plus.google.com/u/4/112352920206354603958/posts/NAumor4n99B
+Fainius Nedurbanavicius As far as I can see from that link and other stuff I've read, those fliers were made by independent splinter groups who hoped to scare people. Basically independent scumbags taking advantage of the situation. Their politics are irellevant to the situation – if they actually have any…
But I'm a long way from there and there are propaganda fiddlers of both sides doing their work.
Tnx +Otto Normalverbraucher Edited.
Interesting that the pro-Ukrainian person quoted in the Snopes article claimed his people "weren't that smart"…
Then again, vox pops in Donetsk on Sunday suggested there were many different interpretations of self-governance / self-rule – many people advocated autonomy within Ukraine, not necessarily jumping ship to join the Russian Federation.
+Scott Watson – I have a friend in Donetsk, with whom I verify a lot of news that I see around. This one was real… The power in some areas of Donetsk district has been seized by local criminal scum, supported by Russia in different ways (money, weapons, ex army veterans, etc). They have issued the similar "law" requiring registration of all local business. Jews were asked to pay 50$ per registration, local businesses – 70$ per registration.
At the moment there are several groups of those "separatists" who started fighting between themselves (both in Donetsk and Lugansk districts). Speaks a lot about "people's republic" they have declared and legitimacy of "fakerendums" they were running. By the way, at the same weekend there were FOUR different "referendums" happening.
I also speak and read russian too, so it makes much more easy to find out what is true and what is not. One thing for sure – Kiev is not winning information war.
+Boris Tzakov western media only repeats what the Kiev propaganda machine spits out. Actually look at the YouTube videos of what happened and make your own opinion, because news is anything but unbiased today.
Democracy is a great idea and I like the idea of self governance by the people but in practice we have never seen pure democracy, about the closest country to it today would be Switzerland. In practice a lot of time it's a joke on democracy, politicians are elected by uneducated masses. The mass media is biased and has clear agendas. The politicians which are elected for a set are never held accountable for their promises or their mandates during the election the only thing you can do is to not vote them in again. But with the support they get from big businesses/ unions/ or other politically active (more so than the average citizen) groups they don't need the regular people. When's the last time you voted in a local election. Then those groups get hand outs and that's how democracy works.
+Fainius Nedurbanavicius three words for you Maidan Self defense force. A militia organized by the government even though they have a military. Dare I say they're paramilitary.
So, let me understand the logic.
Kiev government presumably lacks legitimacy (despite being formed by parlament).
So, let us disturb the election to make sure it stays tgat way.
In the meantime, the referendum is conducted by unknown people, and not supported by a single elected offucial in the region.
How exactly this helps to settle any issue?
+Alexei Tkachenko
You are obviously expecting a logical and well considered response to your question. I'd suggest you not hold your breath on the "logical" part. 😉
You should be terribly ashamed of yourselves, everyone who's taking the side of the Vladimir Putin, a man who's doing everything in his power to become the new Adolf Hitler.
Your love of referendums for annexation is the same as Hitler's love of the same — you always love such referendums when you know they favor you, and you use military force to crush and murder dissidents by the dozen thousands when they don't.
You pretend to care about referendums? But your Dear Leader/Czar/Fuhrer/Forever-President, Vladimir Putin, opposed Kosovo's independence, even though they also did a referendum — did you perhaps support Kosovo's independence against Vladimir's wishes? Let me guess: no. Back then, you opposed Kosovo's independence.
That was the Kremlin's orders for you people back then.
Or see Chechnya: Did you believe in ethnic self-determination then? Let me guess: no. Back then, you opposed Chechnya's independence, you believed in internationally recognized borders.
That was the Kremlin's orders for you back then.
And when the majority won't go your way, you just ethnically cleanse everyone who opposes you, just so the remainder does go your way.
See Abkhazia: 250,000 Georgians were ethnically cleansed just so Russia's allies would get the majorities they needed.
See Bosnia where the Bosnian Serbs (again Russia's allies) ethnically cleansed, murdered and raped, to get the ethnic majorities they needed for their subsequent referendums.
Did you condemn those crimes? Or is it just when Russia tries to conquer a country that you only then condemn those fighting back against such conquest?
Hitleric imperialism follows the same motif of ethnic cleansing until we get the majorities we need, then "referendums" to pretend to be a majority, then invasion and further ethnic cleansings.
Shame on you villainous thugs. We know your game, because in your utter lack of imagination you're just following what Hitler did in Sudetenland, repeating the same damn excuses, with the same damn hypocrisy.
I do believe that Ireland once voted against EU expansion, so the EU then held another vote, but this time they got the answer they wanted.
+RAY J Everyone's free to leave the EU. Unlike Russia and its own regions (see Chechnya), no EU tanks will roll into any country to prevent it from leaving. You know that.
In the case of Ireland, it got concessions and exceptions from various aspects of EU law before the repeat referendum. And it's always free to leave — unlike the poor people enslaved in Putin's imperium.
Nar bollocks to all that just send them all to the UK, here you get benefits thrown at you, a nice big free house for you and your 12 children, most of the takeaways do halal but the weathers shit. You can get pissed everyday watching football and follow the lives of the celebrities 24/7
+Twilight Sparkle Except that the West is a hypocrite in the way that the British Empire was, and Russia is a hypocrite in the way that Hitleric Germany was.
+Zhenka S Ia znaiu. I just wanted to show the stupidity of the presstitutes.
+Aris Katsaris
"Back then, you opposed Kosovo's independence" – How did you guess it?! In case you were asleep back then, many countries opposed Kosovo's creation (independence). And I am not talking about the peoples. And I am pretty sure they were not terribly ashamed because of that. They didn't find this fun at all… to say the least. You know very well what I am referring to. If not, educate yourself.
+Boris Tzakov I also opposed Kosovo independence, as I felt it was rewarding Albanian imperialism.
My point is that all the people who're supporting Russian imperialism now by supporting the "independence" of the separatists from Ukraine, and speaking about the value of referendums and self-determination — they all opposed Kosovo independence.
Thus proving what liars they all are. They don't care about any of the values they speak of — all issues are determined by them depending on "Which side is Moscow taking? I'll take the exact same side."
Moscow's puppets the lots of them, with not a shred of principles, of consistency, or of independence of mind. I keep constantly asking these people, "Okay tell me a single international issue where you've disagreed with Russia in the last 25 years", and none of them has yet ever found a single one.
Aris. Just because one denounces the unelected interim govt in Kiev, that doesn't mean they support Russia or Putin.
If you want to back the radical anti-Semetic nationalists then be my guest. Neo-Nazi thugs are usually the last group I want to associate with.
Follow the money. The IMF wanted the bailout package and low balled the Ukrainian president so he turned to Putin who offered billions more plus natural gas subsidies.
Maybe you're all for regime change, i dont know. But when John McCain is pushing to arm a group i usually take a step back and ask myself what's really going on.
FSA anyone?
+Aris Katsaris "…the people who're supporting Russian imperialism now…" – this is the wrong way to see what's is a struggle for global domination. Most ordinary people do not support any imperialism. What ordinary people have to gain from "Russian imperialism"? People are just tired of hypocrisy. Remember how the Kosovo's referendum was "prepared"? Do you know that now the young men population in Serbia, Macedonia and Bulgaria suffer massively from infertility? Of course, you will not find any "official article" about this. And tell me, please, who was "rewarding Albanian imperialism", as per your own words? Have a nice day.
+Gill Huston "Just because one denounces the unelected interim govt in Kiev, that doesn't mean they support Russia or Putin."
Of course. I also denounce the interim govt in Kiev (e.g. for allying themselves with neonazis, for surrendering Crimea to Putin, for not intervening to stop the Odessa fighting, etc, etc).
I'm only saying that the people who take Russia's side should be ashamed for themselves. Russia is currently being a Hitleric imperialist who's finding flimsy excuses to annex parts of a neighbouring country — that at least is obvious for everyone to see who's not being wilfully blind.
+Boris Tzakov "this is the wrong way to see what's is a struggle for global domination."
No. Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine — none of them are in the running for "global domination". They're the little nations that Russia is trampling underfoot. Russia isn't allying with these countries in a mutual defense against American imperialism, it's aggressively conquering them.
I hate American imperialism (e.g. the war on Iraq) for what it's doing to the people of the countries it invades; not for what it's doing to Russia's influence.
I similarly hate Russian imperialism for what it's doing the countries it brings its wars (directly or via allies) – not because it's opposed to Western imperialism.
"Remember how the Kosovo's referendum was "prepared"? "
The Kosovo referendum for independence happened in 1991. The West did not accept its result as legitimate back then, and it wasn't supportive of Kosovar independence back then.
Are you perhaps mixing up your timelines?
"And tell me, please, who was "rewarding Albanian imperialism", as per your own words? "
Wasn't I clear enough? Then let me be clearer: I condemned (and still condemn) the West's support of the Kosovar independence, because I felt the West was rewarding in this manner Albanian imperialism.
Since I answered you in this manner, tell me now: Did you condemn Russia's support of the Serbs in Bosnia, or of the Abkhazians in Georgia, or of Transnistria, or of the Crimeans, or of the Russians in Eastern Ukraine?
Have you ever condemned Russia's actions regarding anything whatsoever?
" What ordinary people have to gain from "Russian imperialism"? People are just tired of hypocrisy. "
More nonsense. The supporters of Putin are perfectly fine with hypocrisy as long as it's Russian hypocrisy. Same as with Western imperialism, it's not the fact it's imperialism (or hypocrisy) that they hate, it's the fact it's Western. These people are perfectly fine with both Russian imperialism and Russian hypocrisy.
More generally: it's itself hypocrisy if you're using you desire to "fight hypocrisy" in order to excuse the crimes of others. Be sure that all the Western hypocrites you hypocritically decry, had also their own hypocritical excuses for each one of their crimes.
I agree Aris. The flimsy excuses you speak of are the result of the US State Dept, and other nefarious forces, who enacted regime change in a country that had a freely elected president.
I find it intellectually negligent when the West sidesteps the narrative of why a freely elected man, who happened to be ethnically Russian, was overthrown. Follow the money. The IMF low balled and Putin seized an opportunity.
I find it alarming that so many people are comparing Russia and Putin to the Third Reich and Hitler. Your comparison is fair as far as grabbing territory but you could argue the US does the same. The newly formed gov't in Kiev has actors who have the same ideologies as Nazi Germany. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Anti-Semetic, racist, Neo-Nazis who wear the emblem of the WolfsAngel should be a red flag to anyone who knows European history. The Galatica SS regiments were feared throughout Ukraine in WW2 and the Soviets battled them even after communism was enacted. You have dual extremes fighting it out.
I only ask why the US gov't and its European counterparts would stoke the flames and then request arming these clowns.
It's a never ending geopolitical chess game i know, but if people educated themselves about what our tax payer dollars went to the outcry may be enough to stifle those who wish to ignite conflict.